Brightly colored plastic and a different “feel” makes sure you won’t confuse these for live rounds. Popular with many departments and agencies for use in Immediate Action training for just that reason. These do not duplicate weight and balance of loaded rounds or function-testing dummies.
SPECS: Orange or yellow plastic. Rifle and Handgun calibers supplied 50 or 10 rounds per bag, Shotgun calibers supplied 25 or 10 rounds per bag. 9mm Makarov : (9mm Mak.).
Mehr...
Helle "Dummies" für Trainingseinheiten
Helle Farben und ein anderes „Gefühl“ sorgen dafür, dass du diese nicht mit echten Patronen verwechselst. Beliebt bei vielen Abteilungen und Agenturen für den Einsatz in Sofortmassnahmen-Trainings aus genau diesem Grund. Diese entsprechen nicht dem Gewicht und der Balance von geladenen Patronen oder Funktionstest-Dummies.
SPECS: Orange oder gelbes Plastik. Gewehr- und Handfeuerwaffenpatronen werden in 50 oder 10 Patronen pro Beutel geliefert, Schrotflintenpatronen in 25 oder 10 Patronen pro Beutel. 9mm Makarov : (9mm Mak.).
Mehr...
Kundenbewertungen zu PRECISION GUN SPECIALTIES 380 AUTO ORANGE DUMMY ROUNDS 50/PACK
Anzahl der Bewertungen: 25
Von brownells.com: 25
Durchschnittliche Bewertung: 3.2
Useful Training Tool(13.10.2009)
We purchased these to hand out to students for their Basic Pistol Training. Because they are orange or yellow, they can not be mistaken for actual ammo. It is an inexpensive hand out that the students will use over and over. We give out 2 rounds for semi-autos and 5-7 rounds for the revolvers. They work well with speed loaders.
Useful Training Tool(13.10.2009)
We purchased these to hand out to students for their Basic Pistol Training. Because they are orange or yellow, they can not be mistaken for actual ammo. It is an inexpensive hand out that the students will use over and over. We give out 2 rounds for semi-autos and 5-7 rounds for the revolvers. They work well with speed loaders.
Training aid(02.11.2009)
I got these and sent 25 to a good friend in the sand box to pass out to other guys in his unit so they could get some training done in their down time, and I kept the other 25. We both found them to be a little finicky frequently causing double feeds. I have not however had any failure to eject. The rounds are a bit smaller then a live round, this causes the seating in a mag to be just a little off too. They are a great training tool, and can be used over and over again.
Poor Quality(29.06.2010)
These thins are great in pistol calibre but terrible in AR-15 style guns. We spend more time digging them out of the locking lugs than training with them. We use them for malfunction drills and they take up way too much time. Buy dummy rounds with metal cases.
Poor Design(29.06.2010)
We bought them for police training and will never buy them again. They cause double feeds because they pop out of the magazines. They also get stuck in the locking lugs and under the gas tube because they don't feed properyly. The soft plastic rims will not hold up and fail to extract frequently. The pistol calibres work fine.
Great training tool(18.08.2010)
Great for malfunction/fail to fire drills.
Very Embarassing Product(03.12.2010)
As a Firearms Instructor, I purchased these to use in my classes. So far, 3 have gotten stuck in the chamber of my 1911 and I have have to stop class to take a long screw driver or cleaning rod and pound-out the stuck dummy round.
As an Instructor, this left me looking like a novice, which is not acceptable. I would not purchase these again.
Good Product(26.09.2011)
Excellent product, especialy in the classroom. I've used 9mm 45 and 38 for years as an instructor without issue. Bright color and ultra light feel ensures that these are not mistaken for live ammo. I use them in a very limted capacity on the range, and feel that they are best in a classroom setting. The plastic, I think, just wouldn;t stand up to live fire feeding and extraction. Wouldn't suggest for dry fire - get snap caps for that. When teaching groups in classes, especially beginners, this is an excellent, cost effective option.
Everything they need to be(01.12.2013)
I went back and forth between aluminum snap caps and Saf-t-trainers before deciding to give these a try. Even though I only needed a few I sprung for the 50 ct package. I have used a handful of them 8 to 10 times over the past two weeks for dry practice in my XD-40 pistols. Specifically, trigger control, reloads and type 1,2 & 3 malfunction drills. After reading other reviews I was concerned about their durability, but in my experience with them thus far they have proven to be quite robust. They do appear to be ever so slightly undersized (as other reviewers have indicated) because they slide into and out of the chamber pretty easily and they don't perfectly align with the round count markings on my magazines, but I'm inclined to believe this helps ensure they function reliably, which they do. After 8-10 practice sessions with the same handful of dummy rounds I'm really pleased with their performance and durability. The only wear is a dimple on the base from being struck by the firing pin. The rims, ball tips, and case walls still look new. I expect my 50 pack will provide several years of regular dry practice. They are a little pricey for small pieces of molded plastic, but the value of being able to safely practice reloads, malfunction drills and trigger control at home far exceeds their cost. I highly recommend them.
Good Medicine!(01.01.2016)
These are excellent to avoid dry firing on an empty chamber BUT.... they are much better to teach new pistol shooters to break bad habits. Randomly place dummy rounds in magazine with live rounds when training. (Works best if someone else loads shooters magazine.) Works best with Anticipating recoil, picking up head in follow through, looking at target after shots fired. Pistol jumps on a dummy round means shooter made the weapon move, not recoil or weapon cycling. Even helps break bad habits in older shooters. Well worth the price.
Useful Training Tool(13.10.2009)
We purchased these to hand out to students for their Basic Pistol Training. Because they are orange or yellow, they can not be mistaken for actual ammo. It is an inexpensive hand out that the students will use over and over. We give out 2 rounds for semi-autos and 5-7 rounds for the revolvers. They work well with speed loaders.
Will not chamber a round.(29.05.2010)
I purchased these for my Browning Bush Mark Semi-Auto .22 Pistol and just can't get them to feed into the chamber with any of my magazines. They might be fine in other .22 firearms but I wouldn't recommend them for the Browning Bush Mark .22 Probably works best in a Revolver.
No problems(05.06.2013)
An instructor handed these out at a RWVA Project Appleseed shoot for the Ball & Dummy Drill. Probably half of the 20+ rifles on the line were 10/22s, and there were a couple of AR conversions, an dedicated AR 22LR rifles. I didn't have any issues, and I heard of no other issues except for rifles that were already having feeding problems due to the dusty conditions. The dummy rounds fed, chambered, and extracted flawlessly.
Won't feed properly(16.09.2016)
While these dummy rounds are super cheap, they're unfortunately not very usable. Trying to feed these into a High Standard 22 was impossible, the ridges / dimples from the plastic molding process causes the rounds to get stuck on each other when fed from a magazine. Unlike a real 22 cartridge, the outer casing is not smooth (nor is the tip of the bullet smooth). This seems it would cause all sort of issues, not specific to the handgun I tried. For 22LR, it seems the solid aluminum trainers would be a far better alternative, even if more expensive.
Descent quality dummy round for training(29.08.2014)
I've used Precision Gun Specialties 9mm dummy rounds for practice as well as training others in handgun operation/malfunction drills for a while now.
Overall, I've been happy with them. They hold up well enough considering they're about .50 cents each. I've lost more of these to the dirt than loosing them to broken rims etc., which make them unusable.
Not as high quality as ST Action Pro dummy rounds, but they are more reasonably priced.
If you think you want these, I'd recommend buying the 50 count pack. Despite being bright orange, it's surprising how they'll disappear in loose dirt, gravel, or brush.
Good dummy rounds for price and quantity(21.09.2014)
These are good for malfunction and practice loading drills in the classroom. The orange color makes them easy to see and find, they are easy to load into a magazine, and the quantity that you buy is good for the money compared to others. One of the drawbacks that I have found is that occasionally after a while some of the rounds rims would break. Also I would not use these on the range for malfunction drills during live fire due to the plastic having a tendency to get stuck in a hot barrel.
Good for Training(29.05.2010)
Bought these to teach my wife Gun Safety with her new Taurus Millennium Pro. Reasonably easy to load to magazine. Jams about 1 in 10 but good to show how to clear a jam. For the most part they chambered easily and I was happy with this purchase.
Maybe not.....(11.07.2017)
Bought these to practice cycle my new CMP M1 Garand. Pulled the rims off two during first loading. Not very durable.
Poor Quality(29.06.2010)
We spend more time clearing these things from our guns than training with them. They won't stay in the nagazines and pop out causing double and triple feeds. The rims also get messed up easily and wont extract properly. We have to drive them out with a cleaning rod all the time.
Works Fine in my AR(20.09.2011)
I have used these in my AR-15 to practice reloads and malfunctions. I have not had any feed or extraction issues.
Rim Breaks Easily(27.09.2012)
The .45 Saf-T rounds I received actually fit into my .45 1911, which is much better because none of my 9mm Saf-T rounds fit into the chamber of my PF-9 and would jam. However, while cycling rounds in my 1911, the rim of a couple of the rounds broke and got stuck in the chamber. If the rims were stronger and the diameter sizes more accurate, i would highly recommend this product! BUT they're not!
May be ok for Glocks and M&P not 1911(19.07.2014)
I used these for a Dept transition course to the 1911. I had previously used them to train with my M&P 45. When used with the 1911, the rim of the case would break off. Not a big deal at first, until a piece of plastic jammed up my Colt Rail Gun and caused a trip to the Dept armorer to get the gun apart.
Too Thick, Jams in Gun(27.09.2012)
All of the 10 round I received were too thick for my 9mm. Some even got super jammed into my barrel and I had to dismantle my gun and get tools out to remove it from the barrel, thus destroying the round itself. Also, While cycling a round, the plastic rim often breaks because it is too weak when the extractor grips on to it.
HUNTER ED(26.03.2011)
We use these for Hunter Ed classes after I purchased the 12ga to try out. The have never hug up in always work. We have used them in Remington 870 & 1100's, Break Actions, SxS and O/U firearms.
Jam(05.05.2011)
Jammed my maverick 88' hung up on the elevator needed to remove trigger housing to remove trainer shell. Gunsmith felt the may have been to light
Artikel-Nr.: 729050380 PRECISION GUN SPECIALTIES 380 AUTO ORANGE DUMMY ROUNDS 50/PACK Herstellerproduktnummer: ST380 Helle Farben und ein anderes „Gefühl“ sorgen dafür, dass du diese nicht mit echten Patronen verwechselst. Beliebt bei vielen Abteilungen und Agenturen für den Einsatz in Sofortmassnahmen-Trainings aus genau diesem Grund. Diese entsprechen nicht dem Gewicht und der Balance von geladenen Patronen oder Funktionstest-Dummies.
Artikel-Nr.: 729000064 PRECISION GUN SPECIALTIES .17 REM, ORANGE, QTY 10 Herstellerproduktnummer: 17REM Helle Farben und ein anderes „Gefühl“ sorgen dafür, dass du diese nicht mit echten Patronen verwechselst. Beliebt bei vielen Abteilungen und Agenturen für den Einsatz in Sofortmassnahmen-Trainings aus genau diesem Grund. Diese entsprechen nicht dem Gewicht und der Balance von geladenen Patronen oder Funktionstest-Dummies.
Artikel-Nr.: 729000087 PRECISION GUN SPECIALTIES 38 SUPER ORANGE DUMMY ROUNDS 10/PACK Helle Farben und ein anderes „Gefühl“ sorgen dafür, dass du diese nicht mit echten Patronen verwechselst. Beliebt bei vielen Abteilungen und Agenturen für den Einsatz in Sofortmassnahmen-Trainings aus genau diesem Grund. Diese entsprechen nicht dem Gewicht und der Balance von geladenen Patronen oder Funktionstest-Dummies.
Artikel-Nr.: 729000037 PRECISION GUN SPECIALTIES 380 AUTO ORANGE DUMMY ROUNDS 10/PACK Helle Farben und ein anderes „Gefühl“ sorgen dafür, dass du diese nicht mit echten Patronen verwechselst. Beliebt bei vielen Abteilungen und Agenturen für den Einsatz in Sofortmassnahmen-Trainings aus genau diesem Grund. Diese entsprechen nicht dem Gewicht und der Balance von geladenen Patronen oder Funktionstest-Dummies.
16.9CHF0CHF 16.90
*
Nachbestellt, Lieferzeit ca. 4-12 Wochen aus dem Lager USA.
Artikel-Nr.: 729050045 PRECISION GUN SPECIALTIES 45 AUTO ORANGE DUMMY ROUNDS 50/PACK Herstellerproduktnummer: ST45 Helle Farben und ein anderes „Gefühl“ sorgen dafür, dass du diese nicht mit echten Patronen verwechselst. Beliebt bei vielen Abteilungen und Agenturen für den Einsatz in Sofortmassnahmen-Trainings aus genau diesem Grund. Diese entsprechen nicht dem Gewicht und der Balance von geladenen Patronen oder Funktionstest-Dummies.
36.9CHF0CHF 36.90
*
Nachbestellt, Lieferzeit ca. 4-12 Wochen aus dem Lager USA.
Artikel-Nr.: 729000050 PRECISION GUN SPECIALTIES 7.62X25MM TOKAREV ORANGE DUMMY ROUNDS 10/PACK Helle Farben und ein anderes „Gefühl“ sorgen dafür, dass du diese nicht mit echten Patronen verwechselst. Beliebt bei vielen Abteilungen und Agenturen für den Einsatz in Sofortmassnahmen-Trainings aus genau diesem Grund. Diese entsprechen nicht dem Gewicht und der Balance von geladenen Patronen oder Funktionstest-Dummies.
12.9CHF0CHF 12.90
*
Nachbestellt, Lieferzeit ca. 4-12 Wochen aus dem Lager USA.
Eigenschaften:Patrone: 7.62 x 25 mm TokarevMenge: 10
Artikel-Nr.: 729000053 PRECISION GUN SPECIALTIES 9MM MAKAROV ORANGE DUMMY ROUNDS 10/PACK Helle Farben und ein anderes „Gefühl“ sorgen dafür, dass du diese nicht mit echten Patronen verwechselst. Beliebt bei vielen Abteilungen und Agenturen für den Einsatz in Sofortmassnahmen-Trainings aus genau diesem Grund. Diese entsprechen nicht dem Gewicht und der Balance von geladenen Patronen oder Funktionstest-Dummies.
16.9CHF0CHF 16.90
*
Nachbestellt, Lieferzeit ca. 4-12 Wochen aus dem Lager USA.
Artikel-Nr.: 729000052 PRECISION GUN SPECIALTIES 9MM MAKAROV ORANGE DUMMY ROUNDS, 50/PACK Helle Farben und ein anderes „Gefühl“ sorgen dafür, dass du diese nicht mit echten Patronen verwechselst. Beliebt bei vielen Abteilungen und Agenturen für den Einsatz in Sofortmassnahmen-Trainings aus genau diesem Grund. Diese entsprechen nicht dem Gewicht und der Balance von geladenen Patronen oder Funktionstest-Dummies.
36.9CHF0CHF 36.90
*
Nachbestellt, Lieferzeit ca. 4-12 Wochen aus dem Lager USA.
Brightly colored plastic and a different “feel” makes sure you won’t confuse these for live rounds. Popular with many departments and agencies for use in Immediate Action training for just that reason. These do not duplicate weight and balance of loaded rounds or function-testing dummies.
SPECS: Orange or yellow plastic. Rifle and Handgun calibers supplied 50 or 10 rounds per bag, Shotgun calibers supplied 25 or 10 rounds per bag. 9mm Makarov : (9mm Mak.).
Mehr...
Helle "Dummies" für Trainingseinheiten
Helle Farben und ein anderes „Gefühl“ sorgen dafür, dass du diese nicht mit echten Patronen verwechselst. Beliebt bei vielen Abteilungen und Agenturen für den Einsatz in Sofortmassnahmen-Trainings aus genau diesem Grund. Diese entsprechen nicht dem Gewicht und der Balance von geladenen Patronen oder Funktionstest-Dummies.
SPECS: Orange oder gelbes Plastik. Gewehr- und Handfeuerwaffenpatronen werden in 50 oder 10 Patronen pro Beutel geliefert, Schrotflintenpatronen in 25 oder 10 Patronen pro Beutel. 9mm Makarov : (9mm Mak.).
Mehr...
Kundenbewertungen zu PRECISION GUN SPECIALTIES 380 AUTO ORANGE DUMMY ROUNDS 50/PACK
Anzahl der Bewertungen: 25
Von brownells.com: 25
Durchschnittliche Bewertung: 3.2
Useful Training Tool(13.10.2009)
We purchased these to hand out to students for their Basic Pistol Training. Because they are orange or yellow, they can not be mistaken for actual ammo. It is an inexpensive hand out that the students will use over and over. We give out 2 rounds for semi-autos and 5-7 rounds for the revolvers. They work well with speed loaders.
Useful Training Tool(13.10.2009)
We purchased these to hand out to students for their Basic Pistol Training. Because they are orange or yellow, they can not be mistaken for actual ammo. It is an inexpensive hand out that the students will use over and over. We give out 2 rounds for semi-autos and 5-7 rounds for the revolvers. They work well with speed loaders.
Training aid(02.11.2009)
I got these and sent 25 to a good friend in the sand box to pass out to other guys in his unit so they could get some training done in their down time, and I kept the other 25. We both found them to be a little finicky frequently causing double feeds. I have not however had any failure to eject. The rounds are a bit smaller then a live round, this causes the seating in a mag to be just a little off too. They are a great training tool, and can be used over and over again.
Poor Quality(29.06.2010)
These thins are great in pistol calibre but terrible in AR-15 style guns. We spend more time digging them out of the locking lugs than training with them. We use them for malfunction drills and they take up way too much time. Buy dummy rounds with metal cases.
Poor Design(29.06.2010)
We bought them for police training and will never buy them again. They cause double feeds because they pop out of the magazines. They also get stuck in the locking lugs and under the gas tube because they don't feed properyly. The soft plastic rims will not hold up and fail to extract frequently. The pistol calibres work fine.
Great training tool(18.08.2010)
Great for malfunction/fail to fire drills.
Very Embarassing Product(03.12.2010)
As a Firearms Instructor, I purchased these to use in my classes. So far, 3 have gotten stuck in the chamber of my 1911 and I have have to stop class to take a long screw driver or cleaning rod and pound-out the stuck dummy round.
As an Instructor, this left me looking like a novice, which is not acceptable. I would not purchase these again.
Good Product(26.09.2011)
Excellent product, especialy in the classroom. I've used 9mm 45 and 38 for years as an instructor without issue. Bright color and ultra light feel ensures that these are not mistaken for live ammo. I use them in a very limted capacity on the range, and feel that they are best in a classroom setting. The plastic, I think, just wouldn;t stand up to live fire feeding and extraction. Wouldn't suggest for dry fire - get snap caps for that. When teaching groups in classes, especially beginners, this is an excellent, cost effective option.
Everything they need to be(01.12.2013)
I went back and forth between aluminum snap caps and Saf-t-trainers before deciding to give these a try. Even though I only needed a few I sprung for the 50 ct package. I have used a handful of them 8 to 10 times over the past two weeks for dry practice in my XD-40 pistols. Specifically, trigger control, reloads and type 1,2 & 3 malfunction drills. After reading other reviews I was concerned about their durability, but in my experience with them thus far they have proven to be quite robust. They do appear to be ever so slightly undersized (as other reviewers have indicated) because they slide into and out of the chamber pretty easily and they don't perfectly align with the round count markings on my magazines, but I'm inclined to believe this helps ensure they function reliably, which they do. After 8-10 practice sessions with the same handful of dummy rounds I'm really pleased with their performance and durability. The only wear is a dimple on the base from being struck by the firing pin. The rims, ball tips, and case walls still look new. I expect my 50 pack will provide several years of regular dry practice. They are a little pricey for small pieces of molded plastic, but the value of being able to safely practice reloads, malfunction drills and trigger control at home far exceeds their cost. I highly recommend them.
Good Medicine!(01.01.2016)
These are excellent to avoid dry firing on an empty chamber BUT.... they are much better to teach new pistol shooters to break bad habits. Randomly place dummy rounds in magazine with live rounds when training. (Works best if someone else loads shooters magazine.) Works best with Anticipating recoil, picking up head in follow through, looking at target after shots fired. Pistol jumps on a dummy round means shooter made the weapon move, not recoil or weapon cycling. Even helps break bad habits in older shooters. Well worth the price.
Useful Training Tool(13.10.2009)
We purchased these to hand out to students for their Basic Pistol Training. Because they are orange or yellow, they can not be mistaken for actual ammo. It is an inexpensive hand out that the students will use over and over. We give out 2 rounds for semi-autos and 5-7 rounds for the revolvers. They work well with speed loaders.
Will not chamber a round.(29.05.2010)
I purchased these for my Browning Bush Mark Semi-Auto .22 Pistol and just can't get them to feed into the chamber with any of my magazines. They might be fine in other .22 firearms but I wouldn't recommend them for the Browning Bush Mark .22 Probably works best in a Revolver.
No problems(05.06.2013)
An instructor handed these out at a RWVA Project Appleseed shoot for the Ball & Dummy Drill. Probably half of the 20+ rifles on the line were 10/22s, and there were a couple of AR conversions, an dedicated AR 22LR rifles. I didn't have any issues, and I heard of no other issues except for rifles that were already having feeding problems due to the dusty conditions. The dummy rounds fed, chambered, and extracted flawlessly.
Won't feed properly(16.09.2016)
While these dummy rounds are super cheap, they're unfortunately not very usable. Trying to feed these into a High Standard 22 was impossible, the ridges / dimples from the plastic molding process causes the rounds to get stuck on each other when fed from a magazine. Unlike a real 22 cartridge, the outer casing is not smooth (nor is the tip of the bullet smooth). This seems it would cause all sort of issues, not specific to the handgun I tried. For 22LR, it seems the solid aluminum trainers would be a far better alternative, even if more expensive.
Descent quality dummy round for training(29.08.2014)
I've used Precision Gun Specialties 9mm dummy rounds for practice as well as training others in handgun operation/malfunction drills for a while now.
Overall, I've been happy with them. They hold up well enough considering they're about .50 cents each. I've lost more of these to the dirt than loosing them to broken rims etc., which make them unusable.
Not as high quality as ST Action Pro dummy rounds, but they are more reasonably priced.
If you think you want these, I'd recommend buying the 50 count pack. Despite being bright orange, it's surprising how they'll disappear in loose dirt, gravel, or brush.
Good dummy rounds for price and quantity(21.09.2014)
These are good for malfunction and practice loading drills in the classroom. The orange color makes them easy to see and find, they are easy to load into a magazine, and the quantity that you buy is good for the money compared to others. One of the drawbacks that I have found is that occasionally after a while some of the rounds rims would break. Also I would not use these on the range for malfunction drills during live fire due to the plastic having a tendency to get stuck in a hot barrel.
Good for Training(29.05.2010)
Bought these to teach my wife Gun Safety with her new Taurus Millennium Pro. Reasonably easy to load to magazine. Jams about 1 in 10 but good to show how to clear a jam. For the most part they chambered easily and I was happy with this purchase.
Maybe not.....(11.07.2017)
Bought these to practice cycle my new CMP M1 Garand. Pulled the rims off two during first loading. Not very durable.
Poor Quality(29.06.2010)
We spend more time clearing these things from our guns than training with them. They won't stay in the nagazines and pop out causing double and triple feeds. The rims also get messed up easily and wont extract properly. We have to drive them out with a cleaning rod all the time.
Works Fine in my AR(20.09.2011)
I have used these in my AR-15 to practice reloads and malfunctions. I have not had any feed or extraction issues.
Rim Breaks Easily(27.09.2012)
The .45 Saf-T rounds I received actually fit into my .45 1911, which is much better because none of my 9mm Saf-T rounds fit into the chamber of my PF-9 and would jam. However, while cycling rounds in my 1911, the rim of a couple of the rounds broke and got stuck in the chamber. If the rims were stronger and the diameter sizes more accurate, i would highly recommend this product! BUT they're not!
May be ok for Glocks and M&P not 1911(19.07.2014)
I used these for a Dept transition course to the 1911. I had previously used them to train with my M&P 45. When used with the 1911, the rim of the case would break off. Not a big deal at first, until a piece of plastic jammed up my Colt Rail Gun and caused a trip to the Dept armorer to get the gun apart.
Too Thick, Jams in Gun(27.09.2012)
All of the 10 round I received were too thick for my 9mm. Some even got super jammed into my barrel and I had to dismantle my gun and get tools out to remove it from the barrel, thus destroying the round itself. Also, While cycling a round, the plastic rim often breaks because it is too weak when the extractor grips on to it.
HUNTER ED(26.03.2011)
We use these for Hunter Ed classes after I purchased the 12ga to try out. The have never hug up in always work. We have used them in Remington 870 & 1100's, Break Actions, SxS and O/U firearms.
Jam(05.05.2011)
Jammed my maverick 88' hung up on the elevator needed to remove trigger housing to remove trainer shell. Gunsmith felt the may have been to light